What happened to Windows Mail? I can't find it in Windows 7???
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What am I supposed to use for e-mail?
- Moved byMarilyn-Support EngineerMSFT, ModeratorFriday, October 02, 2009 7:54 PM (From:Getting Ready for Windows 7)
- Moved byChris.H - Support EngineerMSFT, ModeratorFriday, October 02, 2009 7:57 PM (From:Networking, e-mail, and getting online)
1 person got this answerI do too
Answers
- Windows 7 does not include an e-mail program. Windows Live Mail is now the successor to Windows Mail and is available free:
http://download.live.com/wlmail?wa=wsignin1.0
Carey Frisch- Marked As Answer bySteve Alter Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:45 PM
All Replies
You might want to check out Windows Live Mail (http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/Mail). It's a great desktop e-mail solution and works with multiple e-mail services like Hotmail, Gmail, AOL, etc.
- Proposed As Answer byjeffreyx Monday, June 08, 2009 8:03 PM
- There is no email client in Win7. MS is pushing their Live Mail solution which frankly I find dreadful. Thunderbird is a good free email client, but many people simply use GMail instead of a client.
MS-MVP - Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!- Proposed As Answer byMr. Microchip Sunday, November 01, 2009 12:42 AM
- Windows 7 does not include an e-mail program. Windows Live Mail is now the successor to Windows Mail and is available free:
http://download.live.com/wlmail?wa=wsignin1.0
Carey Frisch- Marked As Answer bySteve Alter Wednesday, May 06, 2009 10:45 PM
- Can I use my pop3 mail account settings in W mail live?? if not where can I download the normal Windows Mail so I can transfer my messages and accounts to it from outlook express?
I loved outlook express, then reluctantly windows mail. but was forced else where WHEN I INSTALLED WINDOWS 7
I didn't like most of what i tried, so cranked up Outlook in my office 2007.
Best thing I ever did. now use most of it's features including Calendar, tasks and notes etc.
If you have a good look around at what it's got, then mess around with what you come across you get a few nice surprises.- Yes, you can use Windows Live Mail with a POP3 email account. You can't "download the normal Windows Mail" for Windows 7. You've been given quite a few alternate email client suggestions, all of which are free except for Outlook. Try several out to see which you like best.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients (an interesting list but unfortunately not categorized by operating system requirements)
MS-MVP - Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!- Proposed As Answer bythomas0827 Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:59 PM
- I totally agree with you! Live mail is dreadful & seems designed for kids. For a business user we don't want to share everything, so there is nothing like Outlook Express". Windows mail was a poor copy of that & now I also have resorted to using Outlook as my mail program. But its not so good also!
I find Microsoft barely listen to their users, and force people who are already happy with a platform, into something new. This is their obnoxious attitude within the Industry, and one of the reasons other software manufacturers are up in arms about them!
Vista was a failure, but every laptop manufacturer was forced to use it. I feel WIN 7 (if its a success) should be offered free to all Vista customers as compensation for being part of a 2 years failed experiment! Or should I say, guinea-pigs for WIN 7.
Bring back a decent mail program. I would also like to see Quick Launch. Copying Apple sucks!!
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- this link will tll you how to enable quick launch... http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/GettingReadyforWindows7/thread/92bb975e-a3ef-4ebc-83e4-0b8ef0854f06
- what about the PPL dont have Internet...they must get the Internet for that. so thats why microsoft introduce the office 2007 proffesional and ultimate for the users to use there email programs.
cheers@!!!!!!!!! - seems to me Microsoft doesn't include a mail program because of the sentences by the European Union for instance?
Windows Live Mail is OK to me. Design is good for most common tasks and POP and IMAP is supported. There is a link in your Start menu to get the Windows Live Essentials.
So what's the complaint about? A program for kids? Maybe they will put a better solution for those in Windows 7 Business Edition.
But everyone now has his or her mailprogram of choice. Outlook for instance is better for business people so they leave it up to you to choose for yourself! Don't trow away Windows7 just because of that fact.
And don't we all also have our mobile versions of Mail? What's the fuzz about here anyway.....? - Good Answer Lory, Windows 7 is a far leap ahead for MS, Now once the Internet Security Companies get on board Windows 7 will Rock. Hopefully 7 will not bee over-bearing in Price
- I find Windows Live Mail pretty nice for basic e-mail. It even has a calendar now, and tasks. It's obviously not Outlook, or Outlook Express, but for simple e-mail functions, it works, and it syncs better with Hotmail accounts than Outlook Connector. I'm still testing it before recommending it. Can someone tell me what am I missing? I don't wanna recommend something people will get tired of.
On the bright side, I've been using it (WLM) on Windows 7 (Version 2009 Build 14.0.8064.0206) and it's working perfectly so far.... oh wait! I did find a glitch. Something about contacts. Well, its working almost perfect!- Proposed As Answer bysosmn Friday, August 28, 2009 3:06 AM
- Gmail
Due to the antitrust lawsuits of Microsoft being a monopoly, optional features had to be removed from the default OS install. The Windows Live Services (Live mail) can be downloaded and installed for free and works like a superset of Outlook Express/Windows Mail. Even though the program wants to use a Live ID signin, it supports all the features that the previous email clients had.
- WLM is the best. It works with hotmail and clander perfectly. And I can setup safe sender list in WLM and it applies to all my linked accounts. And the list in saved online, so I don't have to set it up every time I reinstall WLM, since you can imagine I have being upgrading Vista to Alpha, Beta, and RC1. I honestly didn't use Outlook Express. It just feels too office like and it is not synced with hotmail nicely. I ended up using hotmail from IE until the Wave2 comes along. If you prefer Outlook, obviously you should just get the professional Outlook instead. The rest of us don't need such over kill software. And I find WLM simpiler to use for my casual need.
Every since Vista, it was rather confusing for me when both Vista and WL offers the same thing, Gallery and Mail. I think taking out overlaping features are less confusing and obviously less problems with law suits. - A REAL replacement! Thunderbird
A great email program, with add-ons for all kinds of stuff and its Open-Source (FREE).
I've been using it for several years, love it. There are major updates once a year.
My Add-Ons: Lightening (calendar), FTP, CLIPPINGS ( a really fantastic word and phrase Keeper).
If you are a long time MS-Outlook Express (or Office) user, you have a short learning curve.
Once hooked you'll never want to go back.
===========================================================
ANOTHER Replacement: Open-Office (Open Source) for MS Office any version.
I let go of MS Office Suite in 2005, Absolutely no regrets! - I agree. I've been using Open Office for years now and can say that i will never be going back to MS Office in the near future. They'll have to come up with something really goooood to change my mind. It does everything MS office does and more. Just Google it and give it a go. why pay hundreds when the replacement is free.
A REAL replacement! Thunderbird
Everybody.. Just know that Thunderbird is a nice Email program but it is not good for those of you that have stored important emails etc and who are not surtain that you will keep using Thunderbird. this is because though Thunderbird is free of charge it is not really an Open-Source when it comes to the backup/storage files, this is because those files are not compatible with the other mayor email programs that are out there. (it is in fact a BIG hassle to revert/convert to a different email client ones you have gone Thunderbird)
A great email program, with add-ons for all kinds of stuff and its Open-Source (FREE).
I've been using it for several years, love it. There are major updates once a year.
My Add-Ons: Lightening (calendar), FTP, CLIPPINGS ( a really fantastic word and phrase Keeper).
If you are a long time MS-Outlook Express (or Office) user, you have a short learning curve.
Once hooked you'll never want to go back.
===========================================================
ANOTHER Replacement: Open-Office (Open Source) for MS Office any version.
I let go of MS Office Suite in 2005, Absolutely no regrets!
again i will repeat i do think Thunderbird is a nice email client. but it is not, and i repeat, it is not 100% compatible with other email clients.
for those of you who consider changing from "MS Office" to "Open Office", wich i agree with, remeber that allso "OO" is not that compatible with "MSO" and the other way around, making it difficoult feks during an application or likewise if you use "OO" for you CV it might not look that good if the recipient of the CV reads it (or tries to read it) in "MSO"...
myself i would say.,, i really am going to miss "Windows Mail". (i have tried "WLM" but it just was not the same)...
peace.- Not again! Almost every new version of Windows comes with either a new address book or mail program (or both!) and of course the inevitable migration hassles (unless you buy every windows version MS issues, which I dont!). How can MS keep doing this? Obviously their email team is too large! I nearly upgraded to Thunderbird last time, this will force the decision.
MS please LISTEN to your customers. We dont want continually changing basic programs. Mail and calendar are commodity programs, get over it and stick with one program (with a common core between the 'business' and the 'consumer' version) do not keep forcing us to migrate.
Unbelievable! Not again! Almost every new version of Windows comes with either a new address book or mail program (or both!) and of course the inevitable migration hassles (unless you buy every windows version MS issues, which I dont!). How can MS keep doing this? Obviously their email team is too large! I nearly upgraded to Thunderbird last time, this will force the decision.
MS please LISTEN to your customers. We dont want continually changing basic programs. Mail and calendar are commodity programs, get over it and stick with one program (with a common core between the 'business' and the 'consumer' version) do not keep forcing us to migrate.
Unbelievable!
Waouh, don't overdo it mate. XP inherited Outlook Express from windows 2000, Vista has Windows Mail, and 7 has nothing; just the suggestion to use Windows Live Mail.
That makes roughly 2 to 3 email clients over almost a decade.
That sounds different from "Not again! Almost every new version of Windows comes with either a new address book or mail program".
You are free to use the email client you like. I continue to use Office Outlook, because it is compliant with my job, office and contacts. Thunderbird is not an option (for me anyway) in my working environment.
Regards
Rem- Proposed As Answer byS.E Thursday, August 06, 2009 7:31 AM
I agree with Zeus76.
I've been using MS Office since version 97, then XP, 2003 and now 2007.
First installed Outlook with Office XP and I have never had any problems during reinstalls/upgrades. Just back-up the PST's and that's it.
I don't know why so many people are complaining over everything... one part complains they are "forced" to have an email program with Windows, now Microsoft decided (and were forced) not to include an email client and other several programs in the main installation of Windows.
Now people start complaining that "Windows doesn't have this and that..."
If it is such a hassle for you the just try Mac or Linux since they seem to have an "all-in" solution, which again should be illegal as it creates monopoly.
After all, we now have tons of options, just pick one and stick to it.
Also, some people complained that Microsoft is making them upgrade to new versions of their OS. Well, if you think you can pay enough to Intel, AMD, Electronic Arts, and other developers to create their programs for Windows 3.11, 95 or XP, then go ahead and do it.
Once a new OS is out there the companies gradually stop their support for the older one since it becomes obsolete. It is like driving a 40 years old car when you have the resources to buy a new one.
The main idea behind this is... DO NOT complain when you have something for free!
And about the use of Vista, all those laptops which came with Vista can be downgraded to XP; it is a matter of having the drivers during the install process.
Anyway... you decide what to use, I don't have a problem since using MS Office Outlook at home and in the office.
Have a good one!- Proposed As Answer byhrhkee Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:58 PM
- Microsoft:
Please pay attention to this thread. Or should I say threat in the case of a few Linux proposers herein. WE THE PEOPLE need a mail client with the OS like you gave us IE to pull mail from wherever and use it to consolidate our busy lives. Windows Live does not cut it.
You do not have to be like Linux to beat linux but do not lose focus of what is the current offerings from Linux and company. MAC is waiting to pounce on how difficult it is to do simple things. Windows invented ease of use while doing great things - you need to return to your roots and give the people what they want.
We want Microsoft Mail and we want it syncing with WM6.
JM - You should really consider the GMail web client, but if you require a locally installed mail client, you should try out Thunderbird from www.mozilla.org (free, and robust)
http://www.gmail.com
http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/
- Edited byMortenFraMoss Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:47 AMfixed hyperlinks
- Why not just download Outlook 2007 60-day trial here: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/default.aspx
It's 100x better then Windows Mail and Live Mail.
You can also download Open Office Mail Client like Thunderbird or Evolution which has the power of Outlook BUT it's completely FREE.
You can download the complete Open Office suite here (for FREE): http://openoffice.org-suite.com/index.asp
To be hones i don't like Windows Live Mail alot, btw, i think that you should include contact sync (with Win.mobile) in WLM to, 'case i can't afford another office license, but i wish to sync my contact at home too. :)
anyway, i realy miss OutLook Express (rip)
Max from PesaroThe only thing I really liked about Vista was Windows Mail. Why couldn't Microsoft put that in Windows 7 instead of Live Mail?
I do not like Live Mail at all. Has all this junk in it - RSS Feeds, etc that I don't want.
Also what's with "Sync" instead of "Send and Receive Mail" ?
Please get all the Vista foilks away from Windows 7.
About Vista - I really hate Office 2007. I use Office 2003 and will keep on. Microsoft really messed up. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.- Windows Mail is installed in Windows7 RC1; its under C:/Windows Mail If you click to run the exe, nothing happens. Come on Microsoft.. don't force Windows Live with its ads on our personal email!
@ Cindy Rogers
Currently in our company we use both Office 2003 and 2007 and since we have the chance to compare them side to side I can tell you Office 2007 is much better than 2003. If the problem you have is with the menus then just install a patch to give you the old menu view.
I use Excel for reports every day and 2007 has tons of formulas, practically unlimited conditional formatting rules and many more features which now that I'm used to them I can't leave behind.
@ enable-windows-mail
Nobody is forcing Windows Live to you, but the laws are forcing Microsoft not to include a mail program with Windows. The problem is that Windows Mail was made to come with Windows Vista and not separately.
I used Windows Live Mail on a temp PC and it looked and worked great. Had both POP3 and IMAP and sync-ed with my Nokia phone perfectly.
Again, Microsoft are not even forcing you to use Vista or 7 so if you don't like how the new OS looks just don't install it!
The end justifies the means!@Mitak82....
There has never been any kind of "law" that says Microsoft cannot install or provide an email program; there was an issue with browsers, but never email. Antitrust laws that prohibit Microsoft from monopolies was to do with browser and the abililty to remove IE.
Microsoft is in fact providing an email program, Windows Live. Complete with ads and security risks.
Not everyone has the $$ to purchase Office or Outlook, so that is not a viable alternative neither. Outlook 2007 lost features; you are not forced to use via MSword. Go look at a source code of an email sent with Outlook2007.. incredible amount of coding. With Outlook 2003 the user was not forced to use Word as the editor for the email.
As far as your statement "Again, Microsoft are not even forcing you to use Vista or 7 so if you don't like how the new OS looks just don't install it!".. that is really not advice at all. As of October, any new computer that is purchased will have Windows 7, or at the very least Vista, so saying "don't install" it is irrelevant.
My point made above was overlooked as well.. I wonder why Microsoft is including Windows Mail in Windows 7 RC1. Overlooked or possibly something they may reconsider?- Ok so like a good lemming, I downloaded the 60 day trial of Outlook and sync worked with my windows mobile devices. Now what? TICK? TOCK? Until what? BOOM! Then No solution again. If I wanted to waste money I would buy Office for every device.
Someone please recommend a solution that works -
Let's say ...
1. I pay big bucks for Windows 7 Ultimate to run on my Netbook , WM6 is on my phone, Vista is on my Desktop at work and Vista Home at home (Why? because I am crazy and love to send my money to Microsoft. ok Maybe all this does some stuff some times and looks pretty/impressive.)
2. The people I consult want to run lean and mean like me but they have Blackberries, Windows Mobile phones, Iphones + what ever... but they have a simple criteria
a. They need to keep track of a lot of contacts. LIKE ME!
b. They do not want to spend any more money to get a SIMPLE function like syncing their phones with their computers.
What should they/we do???
And downloading a trial to sync..... is just dumb. What should we do - download this every 60 days... And for the record - it did not put them in Windows LIve Mail - contacts not even with the connector - either. I can force it and trick it but that defeats the purpose. IT MUST BE SIMPLE.
Now what? - Download and install Windows essentsal that will give you windows live email, or when you go online click on the little envelope and finish setting up mail
- Boy I must be real cranky today.
What I find the msot amusing is that the original poster was surprised that mail was gone after he installed 7.
Come on people. RUN THE COMPATABILITY WIZARD. MS is not hiding anything from you. It tells you right there: NO EMAIL CLIENT.
Do SOME research before installing W7 for crying out loud.
A quick poke around the MS site would have told you there is no mail client. - For home simply get MS Office 2003 and use Outlook. (Well under $100 on fleabay)
For years I've had the awful 'lite' email clients just sitting on my computers unused, good riddance!
As for open office, even my 13 year old after using OO for just a couple hours asked for MS Office because in his words "Open Office sucks!"
With Open Office you get what you pay for. For home simply get MS Office 2003 and use Outlook. (Well under $100 on fleabay)
For years I've had the awful 'lite' email clients just sitting on my computers unused, good riddance!
As for open office, even my 13 year old after using OO for just a couple hours asked for MS Office because in his words "Open Office sucks!"
With Open Office you get what you pay for.
Totally agree, have spent several months battling with OO and various open source clients that come with the many Linux distro's. None compare to the sophistication of Outlook or Live mail. The only one that comes close is Thunderbird, which introduces file compatibility issues as mentioned in earlier post. Honestly.....if you were previously using the basic Outlook Express which comes packaged with Windows, one you have used Live Mail for a while you will find it far more usefull. Added bonus of live mail is the opportunity to sync your local calander with an online calander through Live account. Only down fall of live calander is it doesn't support 'pop up' reminders, only email reminders which become a bit anoying if you add recurances.
thats my two bobs worth :)- been abit a,azed that the system cudnt send an email by default , no email client installed
on ther other side , for buizness use , u can install any client u like , so there is a huge opportunity to use anything suits u more
here , for about 5 years , im using mozilla thunderbird , its good to me and costs nothing - Windows Live Mail does at least allow one to add a UK English spell check, though it's a faff to add it. It lists all POPed email addresses separately but rather widely spaced, so if one has numerous email addressess popped, one has to scroll down a lot to see them all, however, it does offer Quick View, showing contents of the inbox, drafts, sent items, junk mail of all the accounts together. What is very inconvenient about Live Mail is that Quick View does not show all the contents of Deleted mail folders in one window, so to remove deleted emails, one has to individually check the deleted folder of each and every email address popped through it, one at a time .... very irritating if you have 15 or so different email addresses added there. Why, when it allows you to see all the inboxes etc in one page in Quick View, does it not offer the same for all Deleted folder emails? A major failing. I waste so much time trawling through my popped email accounts one at a time to empty deleted mail folders. It should be possible to empty deleted folders of all acounts in one action.
I don't have Win 7 yet, I installed Windows Live Mail on Vista because the email client in Vista did not allow a UK English dictionary spellcheck, only US English, which is no use at all to us Brits as our English is NOT the same as US English
Emma- Edited byemma qt Saturday, June 06, 2009 2:45 PM
- Windows Live Mail does at least allow one to add a UK English spell check, though it's a faff to add it. It lists all POPed email addresses separately but rather widely spaced, so if one has numerous email addressess popped, one has to scroll down a lot to see them all, however, it does offer Quick View, showing contents of the inbox, drafts, sent items, junk mail of all the accounts together. What is very inconvenient about Live Mail is that Quick View does not show all the contents of all Deleted mail folders in one window, so to remove deleted emails, one has to individually check the deleted folder of each and every email address popped through it, one at a time .... very irritating if you have 15 or so different email addresses added there. Why, when it allows you to see all the inboxes etc in one page in Quick View, does it not offer the same for all Deleted folder emails? A major failing. I waste so much time trawling through my popped email accounts one at a time to empty deleted mail folders. It should be possible to empty deleted folders of all acounts in one action.
I don't have Win 7 yet, I installed Windows Live Mail on Vista because the email client in Vista did not allow a UK English dictionary spellcheck, only US English, which is no use at all to us Brits as our English is NOT the same as US English
Emma- Proposed As Answer byDick Lam Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:41 AM
- I qote your post 100% but the license for Office is proibitive for who whish to have just Outlook don't you think ?
so, i think, many ppls here wonder shy Microsoft didn't sell / distribuite Outlook, maybe express, alone, so i can sync the contact on my mobile, at home and at work, whitout spend one liter of blood :P
i think Windows Live Mail, is nice, but Outtlook Express saw mutch more nicer, esay to use, and better organized, expecially if you have more than one mail, have all that folders on the left is a mess.
in Italy we say "do not check the teeth in the mouth to the horse that they gifted to you" (+/- my english is so-so so excuse the translation :) )
I appreciate the fact that the Microsoft give us all this application for free, but i wish to see better product, specially 'cause i'm starting bored to ear
"mac do this, mac do that", while we can, but we haven't :-\
btw, wtf, i don't want a mac i love MS :)
Max from Pesaro - Hi Tonybkiwi,
I had installed Outlook 2007 as an e-mail client and it is good stuff, BUT.. When I want to save e-mail in some other format than HTML, which is first offered in the menu, then it starts blinking and it shows status "Not Responding". Then I use Task Manager and after that it works nicely. Did you have such experinces with Outlook 2007 and Windows & RC? I don't know how to solve this. I have tried ThunderBird and it runs vey nice, but it does not have Contacts, To Do Calendar and other nice stuff you had mentioned.
Thanks for help.
Milan59 You might want to check out Windows Live Mail (http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/Mail). It's a great desktop e-mail solution and works with multiple e-mail services like Hotmail, Gmail, AOL, etc.
IE8 which is in win 7 rc has an email client in it that seems to work fine.....- Given I HATE the washed out look that Windows Live mail has, I'm using the wave 2 one that I got off a torrent and just replaced files. Much better interface then the baby ____ the new one has
- The RC versions have Windows Mail disabled. Go to http://www.thewindows7site.com/ and get solutions for this, if you don't like Windows Live Mail.
@ Cindy Rogers
Currently in our company we use both Office 2003 and 2007 and since we have the chance to compare them side to side I can tell you Office 2007 is much better than 2003. If the problem you have is with the menus then just install a patch to give you the old menu view.
Hi - can you tell me where to find such a patch ? Been using 2007 fro a year now and really can't get used to it - the layout just feels counter-intuitive - and so it slows my work down considerably.
Back to mail - windows mail would 'do' as a personal client if only it supported spell checking - I use it but only because I don't like Live mail. Outlook is great - but really it is just TOO expensive to use as a personal email client - which doesn't benefit from being attached to exchange server.Since outlook express has been retired - couldn't we have that for free ? Or a nominal €1 / £1 / $1 ???
Please ?????
:-)
I use Outlook Express about a decade by now, as a major personal e-mail client of mine!
To be absolutely honest, all my most private and business e-mails are archived in it, in all this decade… Well, not all of them, quite occasionally I erase funny attachments, stuff that use most of the size of this e-mail database of mine... :)
So, in a decade I accumulate some 700MB of the cumulative e-mail database!
- Yes, Outlook Express is still surprisingly fast, believe me or not, well, I still did not rich 2GB size limit problem... :)
- And I had newer ever have problems with it, corrupt e-mail database, or any similar!!!
- And I know that someone will be shocked with this of my testimony and size now!!! :)
But, I attend and want that my important and very personal e-mails be offline, and not on some XY Server in some XY country.
Call me paranoid about "Big Brother", call me old fashion, call me ignorant about data safety and advances known today about keeping e-mails on some Secure double HDD safe-backuped Server far, far away, but, disregard everything, I regularly, one time in a month, backup my e-mails on my PC, and I still want to do that on this way...
Disregard everything that I wrote...
First in Win Vista you stripped from Windows Mail the "Contacts Layout" - even that was catastrophic enough – it crippled me and slower me by 50% all this time till today!
Than you offered the more crippled gadget for this kind of purpose, which was very bad actually – for e.g., I do not like the idea, that, just everybody can see just every time at my screen, in any place that I travel / go with my laptop, a personal names of my friends, collages, etc..., in a direct gadget over my Screen, and second, well, this gadget limit size by 80% of our Contacts on the screen...
Now, when I finally though that Windows 7 will finally clean puberty escapades of Microsoft software developers that eat to much sugar and implode in their excessive art gift nature, you brink the news: No more MS Outlook Express / MS Windows Mail – the MS WLM or MS Outlook rulez ONLY, at least concerning our Software products directly!!! :(
I mean, what will be next that you will strip that we use for years by now!?
Well, people sometimes like changes in IT, but, as long you do not use their conformity and took again the precious time for learning, work with something that works flawlessly for years / decade by now… – instead of that, give the possibility to have the previous way of doing things, and newest way, so let them to decide at their end computer just every single time with your finished product – The OS. Do not took them a leg, instead of that, let them to decide whether they will walk still with two of them, or even more of them! :)
Also, I know that it is not a theme here to talking about that, but, the some "drawing" Wallpapers (newly named officially as "Backgrounds"), that you deploy with Win7 RC is, honestly, offal. - Those "plastic babies" for e.g. are even scary for some children!
This art expression backgrounds in generally are a little bit odd in fact...
Question for Microsoft workers - I presume that some of this backgrounds is made for children, well, do any Microsoft worker have a child actually?
Go put your young child over Desktop to see those expressionist Backgrounds.
Some will be scared for sure...
Or we live in a new age that the more "sweeter" tone of picture, Tom & Jerry kind of design and similar is vanished for good from the face of the Earth...?
- Soon enough, this kind of stuff that put all us on our legs from our cradles in all our childhoods actually, will not be good for our children anymore, we have now the whole new stuff to show them and learn, certainly more aggressive one, or a little bit more sicky to cherish their little young and loving minds – whoa', maybe we will certainly have more chance and opportunity to create a future little criminal mind over this world... :)
And, to come back via Windows 7...
Finally, now the Windows Explorer looks much better than in Windows Vista.
Do not get me wrong, the Windows Explorer in Windows Vista comes with some good ideas, but, some main things were totally slowed users in generally.
- Finally we have arrows again to go Backward-Forward, furthermore, finally I see the main HDD or Partition letters more clearly and handy, and last, when I want that all my folders via my PC have a View-List, he will not change that ever by himself autonomously (Vista always change that, after few days, as Vista like it, and not as user like it, no matter what you do, press, set about that option, etc…)
And last two cherries on the top about Windows Explorer in Vista: When you work with folders or files with very long names, if you do not put Windows Explorer window on max. size, well, quite often the whole files (with that long names), in some folders, simply vanished from the screen, but appeared again really OK, the moment when you resize the Windows Explorer window to more in it size...
Than the Windows Explorer forcing "beauty" that every time forces files to be automatically in alphabetically order, when I put some file in some folder, he automatically and instantly, no matter what, put this file right into alphabetical order, but, sometimes I do not want that he do that just momentarily / instantly / automatically, as long I go out from that folder, and go back in it, then he normally rearrange everything into nice Alphabetical order...
And, of course, the so bitter subject, the almighty and bad voiced, his kingdom, the Administrator Account in Vista…
- Ok, he is deactivate by default because a security reason, because users repeatedly forget to put a strong password on it, because, it is a generally a security issue by it self……
- But, when, and if you, for some reason, finally activate it back, why users must see the Admin Account Name via normal & regular Login window, just every single time when they open their Computer?!
I mean, they know which persona maintain their PC, their know who is their Admin, but why you forcing them to look some stupid name of their Administrator on the Screen just every single time when they engage their Computers, why Admin Account cannot have the option, if he is really activated, to be seen only in Vista / Win7 Safe Mode!?
This is old stuff, this we all have in MSWinXP OS totally legally legitimately!
This was great and such a self-explanatory option… And you ruin it, well, at least if Vista is not in some Corporate Network surroundings… :(
And finally, well, I like Windows 7 in generally, it is much better than Vista!
But, the Outlook Express / Windows Mail is the major mistake to remove it, and than you will getting it back for 2-3 years, forcing all us that we will buy next version of Windows to get back something that we previously have already for years and pay for it, even repeatedly in already numerous Windows OS versions, from past till now…
And I really and unfortunately believe in nightmare, that you will really and finally launched Window 7 without it, and than put it back for 2-3 years, by some SP maybe, or, like I say it already, in a first version of Windows OS that will follow after Windows 7 - as the users will demanding it for sure!
- My question is why removing it in the first place?
- Why you do not let your users to decide whether they want to use online version - the MS VLM, or the same offline way MS OE/MS WM client, like all this years?
- Why you want to make again the "warm water" with something that works flawlessly for years, and why now, when you finally reached security level on stable and nice hold with it?!
This all "eradically" changes are so dreadfully, torture and headache for your users, and, if you remind me again with inevitable migration of e-mail database, I want to shut my head...
Nevertheless, I am experienced user; I work via IT field for years by now, just, go ask some average user about e-mails.
- Backup, transferring, migration, and, you believe that, disregard all that, they will be happy to keep their most personal e-mails stuff on some distant Server via MS WLM?
- Yes, people use their GMails, yes, people use the Yahoo Mails and similar – yes, they are all based via some distant Server to keep such an e-mails of them, but for totally personal or even business e-mails, I think that they will rather keep all that, still and totally in old fashion way offline, in their very own computers, and still do Backup of it of their own, or with help of more experienced IT users, if they do not know how to perform a Backup of it, or similar. Period.
And you will say, use MS Outlook instead, or some third party e-mail client.
There are plenty enough over market…
- Which part of the story you did not understand, people like the way they do things for years.
Don't you think that for that kind of purpose – to just eliminate MS OE/MS WM of the face of Win OS, you need to scribe, even some Referendum as much Referendum in the real government! :)
I think that MS OE/MS WM is much important for many MS Win User people over Globe, and that this fact deserve really respect even by you in MS, than to just decide that they will instantly be vanished by some temporally glitch or judgment eradicated opinion by some higher stuff personnel and his brain, directly in Microsoft.
What's next on my opinion...
The Windows Vista Start Orb is much nicer for me than the new Windows 7 Start Orb - I do not know why, maybe because Windows 7 has to excessive bright-pastel-bleached colors, but, this is just a cosmetic issue and private opinion of my own all here, many will like it... :)
~ Best regards to all!!!- Steve in order to be as lean as possible, Windows 7 does not contain these programs when installed. You need to go to http://download.live.com/ and download the Essentials Suite which contains all the applications that you will need such as Windows Live Mail, Live Messenger, Live Photo Gallery, Live Writer etc. These appications have been tailor made to work with Windows 7.
TG - You can use any e-mail program inside Windows Live Mail, Hotmail, gmail, yahoo, etc. It is the best e-mail program out there in my book and is so easy to configure as well.
- But you can't access your Hotmail account in Thunderbird and anyway, can you send picture e-mails from inside Thunderbird? And does it set up all your e-mail accounts easily just by inputting your username and password and without having to input any other info? Windows Live Mail is fabulous in my book to me you don't need any other e-mail program. RSS feeds and Newsgroups and now that it has its inbuilt calendar its fantastic! First port of call for me whenever I log on.
- @ hrhkee
I have the solution for you :)
1. Get any Windows or Mac OS you want;
2. Get a Nokia phone ("E" series is better for business);
3. Install PC Suite, or the Mac equivalent;
4. Sync with any email program you want to!
Cheers!
The end justifies the means! - If you don't use RSS then just ignore it! Lot's of e-mail programs intergrate everything like this, Thunderbird also contains RSS feeds and newsgroups. Sounds to me that you don't really like progress and want everything to stay the same. I love Office 2007 because the ribbon makes using everything so much easier.
- Your missing the point! If you want to use email, you need the internet anyway!
- Install. windows live mail, its works!!
I totally agree with you! Live mail is dreadful & seems designed for kids. For a business user we don't want to share everything, so there is nothing like Outlook Express". Windows mail was a poor copy of that & now I also have resorted to using Outlook as my mail program. But its not so good also!
I find Microsoft barely listen to their users, and force people who are already happy with a platform, into something new. This is their obnoxious attitude within the Industry, and one of the reasons other software manufacturers are up in arms about them!
Vista was a failure, but every laptop manufacturer was forced to use it. I feel WIN 7 (if its a success) should be offered free to all Vista customers as compensation for being part of a 2 years failed experiment! Or should I say, guinea-pigs for WIN 7.
Bring back a decent mail program. I would also like to see Quick Launch. Copying Apple sucks!!
1. Its mostly based on the hidous color scheme. Baby blue? Please! Even the web based veriosn with the childish headers. Not quite professional there.
2. Forcing users to move on from 10 year old platforms? No problem with that. You shouldnt be using 10 year old software anyway.
3. Vista was not a failure. People just did not know how to use it. (they expect their computer from 1998 to run it.)
4. Quick Launch is gone. Not comming back. Plus, you dont have to use the new taskbar, you can go back to the old view.- I like live mail, but I HATE the look of it. I hate it so much that I had to find a torrent for the older live mail (the one with actual colors in the command bar and with ICONS). I downloaded it and didn;t have to install anything. (it replaced the files)
So I hope microsoft gets the brains and gets darker color sceme back as an option, as well as options for icons in the command bar. Enough with the 1980s style text! - and? You can view gmail in windows live mail.
Quit trolling kid. Not helping - another reason why people hate the EU.
- I have read with interest people having a go about W7 and missing email software as in outlook. If you want outlook. Go back to XP use outlook and stop moaning.
I downloaded Office 2007 and it is running a dream with the outlook connector.
I agree W7 looks good from a operational point of view. Speed is improved. Too early to talk about stability only loaded it last week and hammering the heck out of it. But it does look as if it is designed for a child. It does not have the Business edge or look. Yes you can customise the desktop but on a roll out I dont want to do that.
and what ever happened to the lovely option of CLASIC VIEW for the desktop. i liked that. I got there in the end with shortcuts but if I can do it in a click. Dont make me click twice.
SO far so good. Outlook would of been nice especially for newsgroups. But hey.. lash on its a new OS. USE OUTLOOK - OK, I'm another of those complainers about the lack of Outlook Express. I have Windows 7 RC installed on another computer, and I tried the Windows Live Mail. I have to say that I want my Outlook Express back! Windows Live Mail is a poor substitute, and I do not understand why Microsoft would remove an application that works perfectly well for millions of home users. The old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," would appear to apply here. Did anyone at Microsft consult users before making this change? What legitimate rationale could Microsoft possibly have for trying to force a move to Windows Live Mail?
If I go to Windows 7 (released version) in the future, I certainly will not be using the Windows Live Mail. I will be using Thunderbird or another non-web based client. - Someone suggested if we don't like the changes Windows 7 is bringing, maybe we should switch to GNU/Linux. Actually I have been using GNU/Linux side by side with Windows for many years (all the way back to the early SLackware Linux of the mid 1990's). I currently have three PCs and one laptop. Two of the PCs are dual boot, one with Vista and Fedora Linux and the other with Windows 7 RC 1 and Ubuntu Linux. Linux is great for many things, including the huge number of free software development tools and the support for older hardware (e.g., an older HP laser printer which is still supported under Linux but is not supported in Vista). Windows is great because it generally works well and is supported by all of the hardware manufacturers (try getting many flatbed scanners to work in Linux). Many programs, including the vast majority of games, only work with Microsoft Windows. So, unless you are willing to accept some limitations in hardware and lose access perhaps to some of your favorite software, you may not be able to use GNU/Linux as your sole operating system.
- It's unfortunate isn't it. I like having a mail client because online email often has too many ads, doesn't handle aliases well or signatures or rich text in email.If I were Microsoft I'd make up my mind... and not force people to go looking for other solutions.. This is why they're always playing catchup.. why not just lead and innovate..?If your'e looking for a good email client that's not online go with Thunderbird.
It's unfortunate isn't it. I like having a mail client because online email often has too many ads, doesn't handle aliases well or signatures or rich text in email.
If I were Microsoft I'd make up my mind... and not force people to go looking for other solutions.. This is why they're always playing catchup.. why not just lead and innovate..?If your'e looking for a good email client that's not online go with Thunderbird.
I have the same problem about not having a mail program installed in windows.
I have tried Windows live mail on my vista... It totally f..ked everything up.
And I need to use a signature in some of the e-mails I am sending because of my work from my home.
I think I will stay with Windows Vista... I don't want to pay a lot of money for something that is a waste of time.
It is bad enough that there is a law about the browser... which I also just need to copy to a cd before I install the final version of Windows 7!!!- if ppl doesn't have internet then they haven't got use for checking email!
otherwhise use a mobile phone via mail client integrated in most phones nowadays. - Keep in mind outlook express IS windows live mail (just with a few features removed because microsoft didn;t find them "cool" enough). Though it seems they like a ugly as ____ washed out command bar with no choice for icons.
- How about you work on your spelling?
True, but most phones suck at it. The iPhone does it right. I just wish Microsoft could create an iphone friendly site for mail, or even a few pps - I would recommend Incredimail. It is a virtual clone of outlook express but with tons of cool smileys, letters, sounds, etc. Why Microsoft would get rid of Outlook Express is beyond me. None of the replacements, including Outlook from Office is as good. None of the replacements allows you to have seperate identidys that can be passworded and kept private as in Express. Incredimail works in Vista and Win 7 64 bit and you will feel like you still have Outlook Express. I used OE since it came out many years ago and was ticked off to no end when they removed it as is many other people I know. Incredimail is free as well. The free version does have an add at the bottom of all emails but to get a lifetime add free version it is only $20 and well worth it to me.
So thank you INCREDIMAIL!!!
Beazz - YEH IT DOES I HAVE ALL MY EMAILS ON WLM:)
- Yea I tried WLM and it sucked. I to put several emails on it and every single one was available for anyone that opened up WLM to see. You can create all the ID's you want, but they are all togehter. So whats the point? You also cannot keep the accounts hid. Once email is downloaded it's there for anyone to see. I'll stick with Incredimail since I have been a OE user since it began and like it and Incredimail is a virtual clone of it. To me Windows Mail stunk to high heaven and WLM is even worse.
I'd like to hear how you create and keep seperate multiple ID's under WLM as well as keep them from being able to be opened and read once downloaded? By that I mean able to download emails from non internet email accounts such as your comcast accounts onto your PC and keep them hidden once they have been downloaded? I had my comcast accounts and hotmail one under WLM passworded but all anyone had to do was click on WLM and it opened up and everything that had been downloaded was there for all to see. Are you saying you can make this not happen as in OL? Even the expensive Outlook included in MS Office could not have seperate passworded ID's that could not be viewed once downloaded to your PC.
Like I said, I'd love to know how you do this under WLM?
Thanks in advance
Beazz - As an IT person who has to maintain a large number of corporate offices in two cities, Microsoft's continual changing of applications with OS's is extremely annoying.
I have stopped one office at XP level, and will most likely stop the other offices at Vista. For as long as I can.
Even small issues when changing software becomes a very big deal when it has to be deployed, managed, converted, or fixed on many dozens of computers. And it usually has to be done manually for each workstation.
The common answer given here: switch to this software (live mail, etc.), may be perfectly fine for the home consumer who is purchasing a new computer, but for any large established corporations it just doesn't fly at all.
Upgrading large offices to Vista was bad enough, because so many things were messed up by MS (Windows Explorer is ghastly to use, and the continual "server" errors when transferring large files between workstations is unacceptable [the MS registry changes don't fix this!]).
Sure, it may be fine for me because I have to tell my corporate clients that it is going to cost them $x-amount-of-thousands-more for my extra time getting things working, so I end up making a lot more money on the deal, but in many cases that just means that they decide to either not upgrade or change to another vendor.
For security reasons the workstations are all tied down tight, and don't allow the users to install or run anything like Live, Messenger, etc.
The MS Live system goes against this type of business setup.
Trust me, it's not going to be as easy as just downloading Live Mail and everything will be just fine... - @ vasquito:
As far as I know, there are no Microsoft patches to change the office 2007 user interface to the older Office 2003, XP, etc, toolbars.
However there are 3rd party add-ins which supposedly will add a tab to your menu for you to use Office 2007 pretty much like older versions of MS Office.
Some are free of charge, and some you have to pay for. Do a search on your search engine for "Classic Menus for Office 2007," or words to that effect. You will find several to choose from.
Paul - Many posts re: Thunderbird and Open-Source. Why not go Open-Source all the way? Most Linux distros have office suite software and email clients. Lots to choose from.
MAS - The removal of OE is one of the stupidest decisions in a torrent of stupid decisions that started with the design of Vista in 2005/6.
Two problems:
1. the people making these decisions are too young to know anything, thus they make endless blunders now matter how high their IQs.
2. Microsoft has decided to push this "Live" ____ as the next big thing. Who cares if my "Live" mail will hook up with my web email accounts. I have them separate, on the web, for a reason. OE has been fiine for me; it's easy, it looks okay, it's fast enough, and if I need more advanced features I can run Agent.
So now it looks like Thunderbird. I've pretty much given up Int. Explorer, except for MSFT sites that they will not make compatible with FireFox. I will check out IncrediMail and whatever is on the Windows 7 site.... The removal of OE is one of the stupidest decisions in a torrent of stupid decisions that started with the design of Vista in 2005/6.
Two problems:
1. the people making these decisions are too young to know anything, thus they make endless blunders now matter how high their IQs.
2. Microsoft has decided to push this "Live" ____ as the next big thing. Who cares if my "Live" mail will hook up with my web email accounts. I have them separate, on the web, for a reason. OE has been fiine for me; it's easy, it looks okay, it's fast enough, and if I need more advanced features I can run Agent.
So now it looks like Thunderbird. I've pretty much given up Int. Explorer, except for MSFT sites that they will not make compatible with FireFox. I will check out IncrediMail and whatever is on the Windows 7 site....
The thing is, outlook express was never removed. It was renamed to Windows mail in vista, but was dropped for windows live. They were going to remove windows mail at one point but decided to keep it to "avoid confusion" as said by someone at Microsoft during the Windows live wave 3 beta. Guess what. it just caused MORE CONFUSION! they went and changed their minds about that, and changed their minds once more.
What Microsoft really needs to understand is, they need to stop making things over simplified. Stop making washed out bland UIs. Just get back to the basics.- what about the PPL dont have Internet...they must get the Internet for that. so thats why microsoft introduce the office 2007 proffesional and ultimate for the users to use there email programs.
cheers@!!!!!!!!!Sorry what???? I thought this thread was about a mail client. Mail clients rely in internet connections to recieve mail. People without internet will have little use for a mail client in the first place. - Windows Mail is most definately NOT OE. The big probelm I have with Windows mail and Live mail is there is NO secure identidy's. You can set up all you want but they are free for all to see once any mail has been downloaded. I bought a third party program for windows mail in order to give me back the secure Identity's but it was more of a pain to try and get working then it was worth. But then I have been useing a dual boot with Windows 7, which I like very much, and the only option is Live Mail which to me outright stinks. I'd use online email accounts exclusively before I used that piece of junk.
What MS needs to understand is that OE was and IS a very popular program and to get rid of it was one of the biggest bonehead moves in a long line of many for MS. I run Vista 64 bit and Win 7 64 bit and love both OS's. But the email situation with both stinks!!
Like I said, Incrediamil to the rescue!! ;-) I had used it many years ago but stopped because all the cool smileys and letters in it did not show up in hotmail and the like. However, now it all shoiws up like it appears on your home PC so that is what I will keep useing. There is NO learning curve at all if you are an OE user as it looks exactly the same!
2. The people I consult want to run lean and mean like me but they have Blackberries, Windows Mobile phones, Iphones + what ever... but they have a simple criteria
a. They need to keep track of a lot of contacts. LIKE ME!
b. They do not want to spend any more money to get a SIMPLE function like syncing their phones with their computers.
What should they/we do???
I'm one of those who don't want to spend money on a data plan to sync my Outlook calendar to my Verizon VX6700 PDA. I'm a jonny-come-lately with this technology and I'm also a senior on social security and a Realtor who isn't making much money so my funds are limited. I just need to keep my calendar with me for that (wishful thinking here) hot buyer I run across at the market, so I can shedule them on-the-spot.
I don't need email or web access on my PDA, just the Outlook calendar that I use on my notebook, and I don't need to update the calendar on my PDA. All I want is to be able to refer to the calendar on my PDA when I go somewhere that I can't use my laptop. I can do this using a USB cable, right? That doesn't require a data plan on the PDA, right?
If I can't do this with the Outlook calendar then I'm willing to use the Windows Live calendar if that would work. Can I sync the Windows Live calendar to my PDA without a data plan?
I appreciate any suggestions.
Any suggestions?
BJ Martens- The problem I found with Live Mail, is I can't change the language. Using color for colour, is unacceptable if you are writing in England. Apparently there is a registry fix. I bought Outlook.
Pete
the live mail program works but it makes backing up messages difficult, in outlook you could drag any number of messages out to a normal folder (like my documents) and then archive them off the PC inlive mail they have made it so you can only copy one message at a time, this is something I loathed if Thunderbird as it makes backing up more difficult. Well done Microsoft you have made your program less user friendly and made backing up mail more difficult!It seems that the basic argument in this thread is based on "please don't change things". Unfortunately, that's just not realistic.
Here's my take on things.
Microsoft is taking some features out of the base Windows install for two reasons; 1) to address EU and other monopoly claims and 2) to allow them to update some components of the OS in an easier manner.
I have always viewed the Windows Live Mail client as vNext of the built-in Windows Mail/Outlook Express client. Personally I find it works better and have migrated my personal accounts and my wife over to WLM. No complaints.
As for features:
- Security / Identities : don't share Windows logins - logout or use Switch User for soembody else to share your mail client. Identities in Outlook Express are a holdover from Windows 9x and imply security while really providing very little.
- Colors : Yup, they're kindof pastels. Not horrible but not sexy. WLM will use your Windows theme so pick a theme you want and WLM will fit right in.
- Viewing all your mail lumped together : that's a feature of quick views, each mailbox has its own Inbox folder/etc, you can just use those if you want. You can even add quick views for them.
- Windows Mobile Support : Frankly, no clue. I've used a BlackBerry for years and so does my wife. Yhave to remember, we're talking about non-released software and you may have to wait for something to actually ship in a final version to see full Windows Mobile support if it's not working today.
Ultimately, if you don't like it - use something else. Most people will wizard their way through something, learn to use it and be happy. Others will want Feature X to work like Product Y and they have the ability to switch products to use what works best for them.
Personally, I like the switch quite a bit, other people do as well and some may not. Some want more frequent updates, some are change-phobic. Microsoft, just like everybody else, can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.- Sorry but you're just flat out wrong about the *please don't change things*. MS did not change OE. They REMOVED it period! The program was well liked and used. They should have made *changes* to the program to enhance it, NOT delete the dang program!!
And you have got to be kidding me. Now I am supposed to have to create entire new Windows ID's to compensate for MS piss poor way of doing business? And OE does supply a good level of security. No it will not keep out a determined professional hacker, but it will keep out those common prying eyes that would account for 99.9% of those trying to read your email. Naaaa, I'll just keep useing Incredimail like I said. They have the good sense to know they have a product people enjoy and keep enhancing it, NOT getting rid of it for something completely different. What MS has done is the equivalent of Burger King stopping selling hamburgers and telling it's loyal customers to eat fish sandwiches instead because that is better and it also comes with 2 slices of bread!! Duhhh - Well, you're definately entitled to your opinion. That's really what this is all about - opinions and preferences.
This is a matter of perception, but OE was "changed"to Windows Mail in Vista and subsequently to Windows Live Mail as a separate download. You have a point, the mail client is NOT on the Windows 7 CD, but it is easily downloaded. This is probably annoying to some, but I doubt it's quite as annoying as not shipping with a web browser - which is what's happening with W7 in Europe.
Onto the other part, I'm absolutely in no way whatsoevever kidding you as it pertains to Windows IDs (I don't mean Windows Live IDs, I mean logging onto your PC). There are plenty of security issues in addition to e-mail that are protected by having multiple IDs. Cached web site login IDs and the potential for user-installed spyware top the list, but obviously so do programs like Quicken/Microsoft Money/etc. Like you said, everyone is entitled to an opinion. OE had some security issues, but not that much. It needed an overhaul, that's all. I am not happy with WLM, and that has nothing to do with the "fancy" colours. It's the way the mail is organised. Backups can be a pain. I already used Office, but not Outlook. When I switched to make Windows 7 my primary OS, I also installed Outlook. Outlook is good, but is not exactly lightweight.
A nice alternative is Sylpheed 2.6.0-win32. Looks like OE, has some nice features, and is lightweight.
Regards
Rem- It seems apparent from many of these posts, that a number of people don't like webmail for a variety of reasons. It also seems apparent that many people would be prepared to buy Outlook Express as a separate program from Microsoft if such a program was available for the latest OS such as Windows 7.
Also there looks like some programs such as Thunderbird and Incredimail can be used as subsitutes for Outlook Express. However, you still have left unsatisfied a number of users that would like to continue to have to not migrate to some other program.
So the ball seems to be back in the Microsoft court. Does MS want to make some more money and sell a Windows 7 Outlook Express, or do they want their users to go elsewhere.
Personally I don't like the idea of web computing, having done it many years ago when the remote servers crashed and you were left with nothing. It is nice to have a word processing program on your home computer where you can type and print a document and not have to depend on some remote system.
There are obviously big differences between computer users that are strictly home users and those that are business users. It would appear that Microsoft needs to put a little more time into the home user preferences.
I sometimes wonder if the Outlook Express programmers have long since retired, and that the real problem is that the new programmers would be forced to rewrite the Outlook Express in the latests compilers, assemblers, etc. Heliv, stop talking; you obviously don't know what you're talking about, so stop wasting peoples time.
another reason why people hate the EU.
I have to comment here. The whole idea behind these Forums & threads is to discuss, share knowledge and opinions. That is what I signed up for. Not for judging other people and making unkind remarks. This stuff is inappropriate and absolutely uncalled for. THESE comments are a waste of peoples' time. Yes, people are allowed to vent AND choose to use whatever OS, email client, business application they want AND use it any way they want/need to.
Actually Outlook Express goes all the way back to Win 95 and Internet Explorer 4.0. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlook_Express I know wiki is not the best of credible sources but for something like this it does ok. This is probably one reason many of us OE users out there are really ticked over MS removing it. WE have all been useing it for well over a decade. I honestly do not remember ever useing anything else. Yes, I do have my Yahoo, Hotmail and Gmail accounts but I use them mainly for storage of serial codes and emails I may wish to save indefinately and small programs that fall under the 20MB per email limit for the paid for accounts under Yahoo and Hotmail that I have purchased over the years. IOW, they are just another source of a backup for me personally. Yea, I believe in backup ;-) I print, copy to CD/DVD and send to online sources for things I do not wish to lose. ;-)Not again! Almost every new version of Windows comes with either a new address book or mail program (or both!) and of course the inevitable migration hassles (unless you buy every windows version MS issues, which I dont!). How can MS keep doing this? Obviously their email team is too large! I nearly upgraded to Thunderbird last time, this will force the decision.
MS please LISTEN to your customers. We dont want continually changing basic programs. Mail and calendar are commodity programs, get over it and stick with one program (with a common core between the 'business' and the 'consumer' version) do not keep forcing us to migrate.
Unbelievable!
Waouh, don't overdo it mate. XP inherited Outlook Express from windows 2000, Vista has Windows Mail, and 7 has nothing; just the suggestion to use Windows Live Mail.
That makes roughly 2 to 3 email clients over almost a decade.
That sounds different from "Not again! Almost every new version of Windows comes with either a new address book or mail program".
You are free to use the email client you like. I continue to use Office Outlook, because it is compliant with my job, office and contacts. Thunderbird is not an option (for me anyway) in my working environment.
Regards
Rem
As for OE, I would have loved to see upgrades and enhancements to it to continue as they have over the last decade+. I upgrade every program I have when upgrades are available. So I am not opposed to progress as some may suggest. I would also be willing to even pay for OE in order to still keep it if that was an option. I'm sure millions of other consumers would as well. OE was a really well made and popular program and I really do not understand why MS would eliminate it as they have. ;-(( Or at least put back in seperate identitys in the new programs that are real seperate ID's that can be passworded and not opened or viewed without a password if that is what you choose. I think that is really my biggest beef with the new email clients offered up by MS.
I agree with you Rem ref the amount of email client changes. Don't know where the other guy gets that MS was constantly changing their email clients and address books with each version of windows. OE has been steady and around for well over a decade. I still have some of my old address books saved from early 2001-3 that work with the last OE version and they work with Incredimail as well ;-)
Take care,
BeazzYou can use any e-mail program inside Windows Live Mail, Hotmail, gmail, yahoo, etc. It is the best e-mail program out there in my book and is so easy to configure as well.
Yea, and once you have downloaded all your personal emails you do not wish for people to read, there they sit for anyone that opens it up regardless of a password to check the email accounts. Nothing you have previously downloaded is private. And sorry, I do not wish to create seperate windows ID's for everyone in my home and then have to install every friggin program for each one of them. That is simply not a solution to me as some have suggested. And I am sure someone is going to smart off about why I want a private email in m y own home. It's really simple. I expect some things in life to have a fair amount of privacy even from family members. My wife and children do not open my snail mail to read nor I theirs and it's not because anyone has anything to hide. It is simply common courtesy. Even family people deserve a reasonable amount of privacy in some areas and mail, be it electronic or snail, has always been considered private. My wife and children are entitled to privacy and so am I and everyone else.
Hi Chris,I totally agree with you! Live mail is dreadful & seems designed for kids. For a business user we don't want to share everything, so there is nothing like Outlook Express". Windows mail was a poor copy of that & now I also have resorted to using Outlook as my mail program. But its not so good also!
I find Microsoft barely listen to their users, and force people who are already happy with a platform, into something new. This is their obnoxious attitude within the Industry, and one of the reasons other software manufacturers are up in arms about them!
Vista was a failure, but every laptop manufacturer was forced to use it. I feel WIN 7 (if its a success) should be offered free to all Vista customers as compensation for being part of a 2 years failed experiment! Or should I say, guinea-pigs for WIN 7.
Bring back a decent mail program. I would also like to see Quick Launch. Copying Apple sucks!!
1. Its mostly based on the hidous color scheme. Baby blue? Please! Even the web based veriosn with the childish headers. Not quite professional there.
2. Forcing users to move on from 10 year old platforms? No problem with that. You shouldnt be using 10 year old software anyway.
3. Vista was not a failure. People just did not know how to use it. (they expect their computer from 1998 to run it.)
4. Quick Launch is gone. Not comming back. Plus, you dont have to use the new taskbar, you can go back to the old view.
1: I agree
2: Disagree somewhat. How old is Windows? How old is Norton? How old is Quicken? MS Office? etc., etc., They are ALL well over 10 years old BUT have been continually *upgraded*. They did not upgrade OE. They DELETED it. The age of a program is irrelevant if you ask me as long as it is a program with steady updates to keep up with the current operating systems and other tech.
3: Agree totally. I held off on Vista for well over a year till at least service pack 1 was out. The talk was so bad I didnt wish to have anything to do with it. I had also installed it as a beta from a Microsoft issued DVD and at that time hated it. NOT one piece of hardware I had would work wiht it. And I mean NOT one. No printers, scanners, digital cams. etc. So to me it was useless. Then on top of that after I decided it was useless and went to remove it from the partiton I had created and installed it on for a dual boot, it corrupted my original Windows XP and I had to reinstall everythin because of it. So needless to say I was NOT a happy camper over it. But once I bought it, I went ahead and made the leap from a 32 bot OS to Vista Home Premium 64 bit and have had absolutely NO problems at all. It installed flawlessly and everything I have works. I had to get a couple new drivers from the companys that make some of my devices mainly due to being 64 bit, but all were available. At the beta time even they did not have them so in my eyes it was silly for MS to even put the stupid thing out for people to try. I have a newer PC ( Core 2 duo running at 3.91 ghz on air, 8gb 1066 RAM running at 1093mhz, 4 HD's, 2 DVD burners, GTX 285 vcard, HT Omega Claro Halo XT sound card, Corsair 850 watt modular PS, Asus P5Q-E MBoard, several other usb devices like printers, scanners, port hubs, card readers, etc. ) I have made since that time to and gettin ready for another *upgrade* ;-) ( gonna either just go with a 3.0 quad core or go all the way and build entirely from scratch with the newer Core i7 CPU and all the new hardware I'd have to get to make it as well) Out of all the software I have, the only thing that did not work with Vista was Partition Magic. Not bad considering I always have a couple hundred GB's of just programs (data and files not included) installed on all my PCs. I also have Win 7 RC 64 bit installed on another HD and dual boot that with Vista and I love it as well. Have had not one problem with it either. Have a 7 year old scanner and the software that came with it that works on it as well!! Can't wait for the official release of Win 7 in October.
4: It may be gone, but that is also one of those things I liked better then the current way of getting to the same info. I also liked the scrolling flip screen view introduced under Vista that apparently has been removed under Win 7. Go figure huh? lol At any raTE, I like both OS's. Just not all that happy with some of the additions/subtractions MS has made. They certainly were not made based on their customers views/likes/dislikes.- I agree with BEAZZ here. I want to be able to leave my computer at home without having to worry about kids watching my mails. Creating different ID's for everyone at home is not an option.
I know lots of people love WLM, but as far as I'm concerned it is more like one of those free samples of coding you can find in sourcecodes coming with a development IDE.
I'm quite happy with Outlook, but it is a tad overkill for usage at home.
Bye
Rem - I've got Win7RC1 (64 bit) installed and have been doing some experimenting. Like many here I detest web based mail solutions. I need to keep my emails on my hard disk long term, plus I also send and receive a lot of messages with attachements, which makes web based mail system pretty useless. The closest I get to web based mail is my ISP's web based mail client, which I use to keep a check on my inbox if I'm away from home, but that's it. I've been using Outlook Express under WinXP at home and I use Outlook 2003 at work.
My experiments have been based around three things. Firstly, finding out about Windows Live Mail to get an idea of how it works. Second, to see if I can recreate an OE like environemnt in WLM. And third, to find out what the viable options for email are under Windows 7. This has also enabled me to answer some of the questions raised above. I should point out at this stage I am just an ordinary PC user. I have no link with Microsoft or any other software company and don't have any formal training on computers of any description.
A lot of people above seem to think WLM is a web based mail client. This is NOT the case. WLM is, in fact, much closer to OE than any form of web client. The way it displays does give the impression its online, but in actual fact its all coming from your local hard drive. Other people seem to think you need a Windows Live account to run WLM. Again, this is NOT the case. If you cancel the login to Windows Live when starting WLM for the first time it never asks you to log in again and runs quite happily without connecting to any Windows Live services outside the PC (you can unplug the Internet and, aside from sending or receiving mail of course, it works perfectly). My guess is the Windows Live login is to do with the Messenger add in. In fact, when I installed WLM I didn't install any other part of the Windows Live package. I don't use messenger (can't see the point - if its important use the phone, otherwise write an email and wait patiently for the reply), and I don't use any of the other Live features, so I didnt' want them cluttering up my hard disk.
The way WLM works by default is based around web based services. The default settings leave incoming messages on the server (the opposite of OE), which is no good for me. If I left them on the server my inbox would fill up inside a week. The option is still there to remove the messages from the server when downloaded to the PC. And when I found this I discovered how closely related WLM and OE are. If you go to the menu button (the one to the right of the paintbrush) and select the 'show menu bar' option you get nearly the same menus as OE appear above the button bar (there's one new one called 'Go'). The Account dialogue boxes (go to Accounts under the Tools menu) are virtually identical to thise in OE, and sitting under the advanced tab for each account is the option to remove or leave messages on the server where you would expect to find it. If you go to Options under the Tools menu, you find an options dialogue box that is very similar to the OE box. There are a few small differences (the Maintenance tab has gone to to be replaced by a Maintenance button under the Advanced tab), but things are so similar its a matter of moments to reconfigure all the options to match you're favourite OE setup.
The WLM mailboxes are one area where it differs greatly from OE. Under OE each folder was a separate file containing all the messages in the folder, with all files linked by a common index. In WLM the folder structure exists on the hard disk and each email is a separate file with a seemingly meaningless name. This is an extremely inefficient method of storing the messages as lots of small files tend to take up a disproportionately large amount of space. However, it does make backing the whole lot up easily (I don't know about restoring as I've not tried it) and you can pull out a single email file assuming you can find it. WLM mailboxes are also created on a one-per-account basis. So, if you have 7 email accounts you get 7 mailboxes, each with its own inbox, drafts, deleted items, sent items and junk mail folders. As has been mentioned above, this does make it difficult to manage several accounts easily if all are for the same person/subject/task. However, there is a solution. Just like OE, you can set up rules in WLM to do things when messages are sent or received. Under the menu button (mentioned above) go to Layout and select the Folder Pane option. Tick the Storage Folders option and a new set of folders appear in the list alongside the other account, quick view and outbox folders. If you then set up new folders in that area to suit yourself and then create email rules to move messages into that storage folder where you wand them on sending or receiving you get everything under the one folder structure almost like OE. Not an ideal solution, but its close enough to he usable.
Finally, for those who can't get on with WLM and really would much rather use OE, there is a solution. If you get Win7 Business or above (or for the time being the release candidate) you can download and install Virtual XP mode, which runs a version of (32bit) XP SP3 inside a virtual machine on top of Windows 7 including IE and OE. With the network connection suitably configured to give access to the Internet from within VirtualXP it is very simple to set up OE to send and receive email just as it has always done when running under XP. This is the solution I will be using, at least until I upgrade from the RC to an official version of Win7. The reason is I don't know what the official Win7 release is going to contain (there are still gaping holes in the help files), there's a chance the UK version of Win7 won't include internet connectivity, and I don't know what email solutions will be aeound at the time. So, I'm keeping my options open for the time being by using a format that most email programs can understand or import.
On the subject of IE not being installed in the European version of Win7, I really cannot see that happening. This would make Windows completely unusable and unsaleable. Here's the problem. Say I go out and buy a new PC loaded with Win7, take it home and connect it to my internet connection. I then find I have no browser (IE) installed, so I can't connect to the internet and therefore can't download anything. But I can't get a browser easily without connecting to the internet to download it, which leaves me pretty stuffed. The only solution then would be to go out and buy a CD containing browser software so I can install it onto the PC to connect to the internet, which in this day and age seem really daft. It would also give Linux and other OS's that include browsers an unfair advantage in the marketplace. Personally I think the solution is going to be far simpler. In much the same way Linux ships with several different competing browers and gives the user the option to choose which to install, I think Win7 will also come with the option of installing one of several different browsers. Alternatively, it might come with a heavily cut down browser that is there simply to enable the user to download and install the browser of their choice. Whatever the outcome, I really cannot see Windows 7 being sold in Europe without some means of getting on the internet.- Proposed As Answer byferistoteles Sunday, July 26, 2009 9:12 PM
- It looks like Microsoft is poshing its self out of the software market with open office and os getting new users that they never had a hope of getting before.
I installed windows 7 on 1 of 5 pc's and was not at all happy I did a roll back to PX pro and if this is what Microsoft is offering and there will be no support for XP then I think I will move all my Pc's to Linex. - Also upset that windows 7 has no email . I have tried Thunderbird but it will not connect. Say's folder is being processed and then say's folder is being processed and then cannot establish connection. Thunderbird works well with Vista home premium. I think it may be easier to switch to a version of Linux . RCK.
Marks' post is spot-on.
I am a 15-year IT person, and after using W7RC for a while and installing WLM, you get close-to-OE performance and features from it.
Simply install just the WLM email client, skip over all of the Live ID stuff, then go into the settings and change everything over to emulate OE.
The result is a near-OE email application which will work just fine for 96% of people. It's free, it's MS, it works with W7.
Unfortunately, those who require more will most likely have to bump up to MS Outlook.
On the subject of IE not being installed in the European version of Win7, I really cannot see that happening. This would make Windows completely unusable and unsaleable. Here's the problem. Say I go out and buy a new PC loaded with Win7, take it home and connect it to my internet connection. I then find I have no browser (IE) installed, so I can't connect to the internet and therefore can't download anything. But I can't get a browser easily without connecting to the internet to download it, which leaves me pretty stuffed. The only solution then would be to go out and buy a CD containing browser software so I can install it onto the PC to connect to the internet, which in this day and age seem really daft. It would also give Linux and other OS's that include browsers an unfair advantage in the marketplace. Personally I think the solution is going to be far simpler. In much the same way Linux ships with several different competing browers and gives the user the option to choose which to install, I think Win7 will also come with the option of installing one of several different browsers. Alternatively, it might come with a heavily cut down browser that is there simply to enable the user to download and install the browser of their choice. Whatever the outcome, I really cannot see Windows 7 being sold in Europe without some means of getting on the internet.
This may already have been mentioned, but just incase.
We lucky Europeans will NOT be getting Internet Explorer within Windows 7. Due to a case by Sun, the European Court has ruled on it.
We are getting a "E" version (ie "Windows 7 Ultimate E") with NO Internet Explorer, we have to d/l it first and install it later.
I'm an very impressed with Windows 7, and was looking forward to it, but will NOT be buying an incomplete product.
I'll either stick with Vista, or pirate Windows 7, but I won't be paying for it (unless MS appeal and get IE back in)- I like TB also and installed it on Win7, works great. But now how do I sync my contacts from my Windows Mobile phone?
I can connect and sync (works much better as ever before) but I get a message that I do not have "association with an email program" <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:"Angsana New"; panose-1:2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:16777219 0 0 0 65537 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Angsana New";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> and that I should go to "Default programs" to make that association. But what do associate with what?
Email me at ivomh99@gmail.com - Windows 7 does not come with a built in E-Mail client. If by Windows Mail, you mean Windows Live Mail, you can download that for free from the windows live website. Otherwise, you can install Microsoft Office, I used 2003 even though it was made for XP and it works Great!
- I had MSN Mail and it worked fine until the 7-13-09 updates. Now attachments won't open unless you save them to disk, which is a pain. I am trying the Live Mail but it as somewhat circuitous also. And worst of all, I cannot figure how to archive old emails that I choose to keep. Seems that I read that emails over 30 days old are deleted from their server. Is this true? How do you save old emails on your own hard drive?
Thanks,
Dave Calkins - I have installed Windows Live Mail (WLM) in Windows 7 RC and was pleasantly surprised by the much improved presentation.
In Vista WLM is cluttered up with Icons that I guess give it the look that has been attributed to being "for kids" in the foregoing dicussion.
(I class this new "ribbon bar" in that category too as do a number of my peers but then there is no way we could be described as a kids but I expect my grandkids might like it).
This to its credit the "for kid" look has gone from the version of WLM I downloaded and installed in Windows 7 RC and a more professional appearance has presented itself. The silly icon are no more I am pleased to report.
I guess the nightmare of all the confidential information in the Contacts list getting uploaded by the default of Signing in to MS Live is still there but I know from bitter experience with WLM Vista to go straight to Tools, Options... Connection tab and click the "Stop signing in" button before importing my Contacts. I feel it is the least I can do to protection their privacy in the face of WLM's complete disregard for it!
I have yet to try the Import & Export facilities in the Build 14 I have in Windows 7 but I am hoping that the corruption I encountered using these facilities in the Build 12 I have in Vista has been sorted out. The dreadful nesting of Storage Folder and Local Folder plus mind bending links that resulted previously in my losing some emails and corrurting Folder names was terrible incurring hours of time sorting it out. My experience with Exporting Contacts in Build 12 also is not good. For example if more than one email address is entered for a Contact, say a private one and a works one, only one gets exported. This is to a csv file and can easliy be verified in the csv file with Notepad, with Excel or OpenOffica Calc that I use at home. Initially I blamed the Import but the Import is bringing what the csv file contains. As I say this experience was with Build 12.... but in prepartion for the move to Build 14 for when my pre-ordered Windws 7 arrives so suffice it to say it was not a good start.
So far WLM in Windows 7 get my vote but be sure to click that "Stop signing in" button before confidential information gets uploaded without consulting you unless you are happy with the "How could you possibly not want this" philosophy.
Regards,
Les.- Proposed As Answer byRico31262 Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:35 AM
- To save in the outlook you simply drag from outlook and drop in the folder that you wish to save it in.
You Can Do That In Windows Live Mail Program As Well :)
the live mail program works but it makes backing up messages difficult, in outlook you could drag any number of messages out to a normal folder (like my documents) and then archive them off the PC inlive mail they have made it so you can only copy one message at a time, this is something I loathed if Thunderbird as it makes backing up more difficult. Well done Microsoft you have made your program less user friendly and made backing up mail more difficult!- Sorry, but that's true... Windows Live Mail seems made for kids, and the most of us need a more serious solution. Users from last two decades had not get a little respect from MS while they change radically the interfaces within the popular applications or simply take them off the way (ie Outlook Express, my favourite email client since I had my first Windows 95 PC). I've seens similar situations with Office... finally I got some expertise in Excel applications on last three years, then they come with Office 2007 and send all my menu command bars to trash... and design a new interface which has scared too much users (including me). Again, an environment maybe made for new kids, but not thought for the veteran users, those who had set them in the place they have today as leaders.
Two more points: you can't force somebody who works at home to buy a Business or Enterprise OS version just to get a decent mail solution. Again, serious users need email for work, not for searching friends or getting updated about what's the new photo of somebody's pet. We need functionality, not strange and shining interfaces (in other words, stop the "wanna be Mac" attitude). And NO, that's not true: we DON'T all also have our mobile versions of Mail. Please remember that Windows is used in all the whole world, not just by a minority like Mac u$er$$$$... some of us don't need, can not (or simply don't want) be connected all the time... we can live without that.
Now, testing Windows 7, I've added some RAM to my PC and the system did not start anymore (just safe mode). My alternative platform (XP + SP3) has started without any problem and is running smooth...
Inevitable, I'm a bit disappointed... - Sorry, if I'm missing something please advise me... but WLM don't show 'Local folders' as Outlook Express did, so I can't create a folder outside my email accounts to organize my emails based on topics or age. This allow create folders only inside of the account folder, which in hotmail case (at least, I'd not tested on the others accounts yet) implies to create the folder in the server instead locally on my disk. That's not what I need... so, is not there another solution than move manually the '.eml' files outside the program, and check them one by one instead of getting organized into WML?
If this is the way it is, then WML is NOT the best. Thanks. - I agree with Cindy, except Vista and Office relationship she mentioned, they are not necessary a 'combo'. These are two different things whose don't have to work together. But, yes... they messed up it all... Office 2007 is a stinky mess, especially for 'veteran' users. I'll keep on 2003, waiting these guys won't invent some strange compatibility issue to force us to use some messy wrong-thought-innovation like Office 2007. One more time... please MS guys, listen the users...
- I can only agree with you feristoteles, about the "for kids" ribbon bars we get from MS these days even Paint in Windows 7 has gone crazy with no concise clear Menu bar any more but for some alternative reason, as I posted above, Windows Live Mail (build 14....) in Windows 7 where I have this version has dropped the awful "for kids" icons and is presented with a commercial looking set of menus. Altogther a new fresh look and I reckon designed to attract the business user.
The way to organise your emails now is in Storage folders but these may have to be turned on somewhere. I have them set up now but have forgotten how I did it. Once established the folder structure is much the same as that which you can create in Outlook Express and you most certainly can drag and drop to it.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Les. Hi Mitak82, thanks for your comments... I know some of the advantages you mentioned about Office 2007, they are true, but in fact, the interface (especifically menus) gets my stomach sick. I don't have enough time to be forced to a re-learning about the interface of a program I've been using for years...
Could you please give us some more information about the patch you talked about? Thanks a lot...- Because all these issues with the email migration and the menace of having tons of emails and personal attachments forced to be on-line, I had to move all of my messages to personal local folders (yes, I used Outllook Express for more than 10 years too) in order to keep them as backup, and delete them in hotmail account. So Hotmail can take those Gbs of inbox capacity and do with them whatever... now, Outlook Express is buried... believe me, I'm not happy for that.
- Just because you believe that Thunderbird's system for storing email isnt 100% compatible with other programs in no way makes it not "Open-Source". Right now you could write an extension to export Thunderbird mail to some closed source proprietary format like Outlook's PSD files.
Thunderbird has had the same storage system forever, while users of Microsoft solutions have had to endure differing storage systems between Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows Mail, and now Windows Live Mail. I would much rather keep my mail in a Thunderbird folder which I know can be backed up and moved to a new installation of Thunderbird on a new Windows 7 machine.
As for OO, most people distribute their CV's in PDF anyway, which OO could do long before MSO could.
Oh and one more thing: The mail storage format in Thunderbird is the MBOX format, a long used industry standard which MS could choose to support. One could say that all of the MS mail products are not 100% compatible with all other email clients.
I realize that I sound like I hate MS- I don't. I hate a lot of the things they do and the choices they make. All of my everyday machines are Windows. The Windows Mail disappearing act is a perfect example of a poor choice. This thread wouldnt exist if MS had just left OE alone.
- Not including a mail client in Windows 7 was only one of several remedies available to Microsoft. It is the remedy MS choose, they were not forced into it.
- Dave, please read details on the post above from Mark Rumsey... I was worried about this same point, but he mentioned the "Storage Folders" option... and I think this is (approximately) what I was looking for. Peace.
- If you are happy about Incredimail spying on you and the people you send mail to, then have at it.
Any email client that once claimed "an unrestricted, perpetual, irrevocable license to use, reproduce, display, perform, modify, transmit and distribute" any email sent using the program itself" should not be seriously considered by anyone for anything.
- THANK you for this. I soooo agree with Live Mail. Never liked it or its previous version - and I've seen a few :) Willl try this Thunderbird solution. Otherwise Windows 7 goes to the dump and I will sadly convert back to Vista. Or change my operating sytem....
- 1. I do NOT want to loog into a "social networking site" to access my mail.
2. I DO want to be able to use my email at work (won't allow Windows Live and I guess I'm NOT alone in that) and at home
3. Outlook is like a battle ship to use. Not impressed. Never been.
4. If the EU is a problem - give options. They have not done so.
I like Win 7 - now that I've solved - for now - my multiple screen difficulties. .... Welll.... it DID use my LiveID password without consulting me!!!! Hmmmmm - BUT I guess I will have to dump it. My email is my most important tool - this will not do. - Couldn't agree more!
- Yes! Agree!
I've had aaaallllll the Office suites - since the first one. And I've tried aaallll the upgrades of Outlook. Every time HOPING that NOW! But... it is just to cumbersome. Back to, at first, Outlook Express and then Windows Mail. Windows Live IS NOT an alternative. I want a standalone email system that is EASY AND QUICK - and from reading this page I guess I'm not alone.
Will probably change OS - email is THE MOST important function (that needs an Internet connection) I have I'd say. - THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! Excellent wording and summarisation!
Couldn't agree more. - It DID give the impression that there would be an EQUAL option. Windows LIVE is NOT equal. It is a social site that at least my company will NOT allow for security purposes.
- Flor download - not storing. AND for email not social networking....
- Couldn't agree more!
- THANK YOU! Will try. Maybe this will be my first step AWAY from Microsoft. Then they will have succeded, won't they?
- Exactly when it comes to Live MAIL. However, I DO like Windows Mail - and liked Outlook Express even more. Was hoping to a RETURN of some of the functionalities of Express in Win 7 - BOY what a mistake :)
- haha. that was a rather funny and apt :) Am in the process of downloading Incredimail as I write this. Thank you!
A few minutes later..... Downloaded. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU :))))) You have made my Monday a NICE one :) - Just installed IncrediMail as one person has suggested here. TRY THAT ONE! http://www.incredimail.com
- Yes, willingly give Incredimail all your contacts and mail. If it has Smilies it must be good.
While youre at it, take your firewall down too,and post your IP address here. Please also post your login and pass as well as your bank routing and account numbers.
- I got burned out on reading replies. This may have been answered. I don't use Outlook, Live Mail, etc. I go to the websites to check email. Right now with Vista I have to save attachments to hard drive to look at it but with the old XP it just opened up. How will W7 affect me?
- That is pure nonsense. Just how does Incredimail get your contacts and emails simply from useing their program? Either show some proof that this is possible and they are doing it, or stop posting it.
- I have no knowledge or experience of Incredimail but it could well do its uploading in much the same way as Windows Live Mail does with an uploader that get installed as part of the package.
I know having learnt the hard way that if you do not want your locally held Contacts in Windows Live Mail being uploaded by default to the Webmail Client (yes without asking you first) you have to stay offline after you have it installed until you have been to Tools, Options, Connection tab and clicked "Stop signing in". This should without any shadow of doubt be the default setting until the User decides otherwise but it is not. Once this is done and you have your Accounts, Storage Folders set up Windows Live Mail is very much a clone of Outlook Express and a visit to the Menus etc will soon reveal just how much of it is based on Outlook Express but to my mind it has had a very presentable face lift. The Windows Live Mail client does every thing Outlook Express did and you can set POP3 and SMTP servers for the accounts that need them. The Send and Receive functionality work as it should without ever Signing in so my advice is don't ever do it.
BTW the utility that I suspect to be responsible for the dastardly deed is called "Windows Live Upload Tool" and a look at Programs and features with Control Panel will show you if you have it installed. That is pure nonsense. Just how does Incredimail get your contacts and emails simply from useing their program? Either show some proof that this is possible and they are doing it, or stop posting it.
Well... did install Incredimail AND LIKED IT! BUT then after having read Jmoore2009 I did some research...... and unistalled. Was informed by someone though that that might not be enough to do a simple uninstall.
This is waht I found....
EULA & Privacy PolicyThe IncrediMail client stores what the policy refers to as "General Usage Patterns," including "the number of messages that a user sends; the number of messages that are read; what elements of the service are most often used; user log-in dates and time; and message size data." No personal data is collected, and the above collected data is used to improve the product and "conduct and publish aggregate, anonymous, market research results."[13][self-published source?][14][unreliable source?]
Verbiage from the EULA Incredimail users must accept in order to install the program is also a source of controversy, as this EULA provision at one time specifically granted the Incredimail corporation "an unrestricted, perpetual, irrevocable license to use, reproduce, display, perform, modify, transmit and distribute" any email sent using the program itself. This text has since been modified to restrict these rights grants more reasonably to unsolicited email sent to the Incredimail corporation. However the current EULA allows Incredimail to change the EULA at any time �without notice or release of new software� allowing Incredimail to do whatever they wish with users data without asking permissions beforehand.[original research?]
The EULA for Incredimail is available online at http://www.incredimail.com/english/termsofuse.asp, and can also be viewed by downloading the actual program and beginning the installation process.
SO now Win 7 UNFORTUNATELY is going out the door - cause it DOES make life faster and some programs do work better - adn Vista isgoing back on. NOT HAPPY....- My problem with Windows Live Mail has been with importing my Address Book from Outlook Express that I use with XP Home. I have a little over 300 contacts with most distributed over different Groups. When I imported the Address Book in WAB format I ended up with over 600 contacts! WLM's contact list would list contacts in both the main and group list as separate contacts and I ended up a lot of double and triple names for the same contact. It also ignored the <default> tag so I ended up with contacts using an old email address or address I did not want to use for that group. Deleting the extra contact would also delete that contact from it's group (not a good thing). I don't want to have to reenter all this info by hand!!!
John Knapp That is pure nonsense. Just how does Incredimail get your contacts and emails simply from useing their program? Either show some proof that this is possible and they are doing it, or stop posting it.
Sorry Beazz, but you seem not to live in the real world... some of this kind of free programs act like the trojans / adware / spyware / viruses do...
That's so easy... those ridiculous smileys (which we can live without, of course) are not always really pasted into the emails you send. Sometimes these are embedded into the message text being really a link to show them online. So, when you or your contact are checkinf the message, the program is searching the net, looking for the stup1d graph. The result: the machine which hosts the file catches your IP address, and then is just a question of time for harvest the info they need from you, in order to send ads or whatever they want... and that could be just the beginning. Fools hunting, I call this. Wiser users can live without that kind of "gifts"... the others are like the Trojan citizens, they accept any useless thing that comes "easy" or "free" or etc...
Some cases through the story: Gator, Messenger Plus... could somebody grow up the list?
Peace,
FERThanks Mitak82:
I see you understand the frustration (it is not for me but the people I serve.) I am a geek I get technology to do what I want when I want but it is not simple enough for my customers. The cost is another issue - the milking of the computer user in this the age of Linux is not wise. Freeware is not the answer either but the cost of Windows Ultimate in Vista or Windows 7 deserves features not gotchas.
Your recipe is a good choice but when I added it up... I think the Microsoft PAIN in the wallet worked out cheaper. My netbook was $300, Phone $140 ... leaves a lot to spend on Office 2007.
I see you got the point though - your answer could work no?
JM- I want to be the first to say it here...
There is a kid working on a solution to tie OO and Mozilla products to Windows Mobile and Iphone - I predict he/she will be filthy RICH.
When this solution hits the net, all my microsoft problems will vanish because I will have 5 machines in the house on Linux and then switch the platform I recommend for small and medium sized businesses who want the best value in computing - Linux.
MICROSOFT? Kapish?
Good! - Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:10 PM
